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	<title>Comments on: The Definitive Guide to iPhone App Market Sizing</title>
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	<link>http://blog.jwegener.com/2009/08/03/million-dollar-iphone-app-market-sizing/</link>
	<description>Jonathan Wegener's Technology/Marketing Blog</description>
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		<title>By: StationStops for iPhone</title>
		<link>http://blog.jwegener.com/2009/08/03/million-dollar-iphone-app-market-sizing/comment-page-1/#comment-427</link>
		<dc:creator>StationStops for iPhone</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 15 Oct 2009 21:51:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.jwegener.com/?p=472#comment-427</guid>
		<description>Lol I was just authoring a very similar post about my MTA-related app when I found yours while looking for figures. &lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;I have gotten pretty tired of people asking &quot;do people make a lot of money selling iPhone apps?&quot; when the answer to that question is restricted to the same per-product marketing variables of just about any other product.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;I like writing my app and supporting passengers - I wrote the app for myself first. I far make less per hour on iPhone App sales than any other development job I have had in 15 years, but I&#039;m ok with that.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;However, it has held me back from jumping into similar products as StationStops with very limited potential market (Regular Metro-North commuters with iPhones), and a regular maintenance requirement.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Lol I was just authoring a very similar post about my MTA-related app when I found yours while looking for figures. </p>
<p>I have gotten pretty tired of people asking &#8220;do people make a lot of money selling iPhone apps?&#8221; when the answer to that question is restricted to the same per-product marketing variables of just about any other product.</p>
<p>I like writing my app and supporting passengers &#8211; I wrote the app for myself first. I far make less per hour on iPhone App sales than any other development job I have had in 15 years, but I&#39;m ok with that.</p>
<p>However, it has held me back from jumping into similar products as StationStops with very limited potential market (Regular Metro-North commuters with iPhones), and a regular maintenance requirement.</p>
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		<title>By: usasonibifub</title>
		<link>http://blog.jwegener.com/2009/08/03/million-dollar-iphone-app-market-sizing/comment-page-1/#comment-291</link>
		<dc:creator>usasonibifub</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 23 Aug 2009 13:12:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.jwegener.com/?p=472#comment-291</guid>
		<description>&lt;strong&gt;usasonibifub...&lt;/strong&gt;

 &lt;a href=&quot;http://namelindablog.info/chuckee-cheeses-card/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Chuckee Cheeses Card&lt;/a&gt; ...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><strong>usasonibifub&#8230;</strong></p>
<p> <a href="http://namelindablog.info/chuckee-cheeses-card/" rel="nofollow">Chuckee Cheeses Card</a> &#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Jonathan Wegener</title>
		<link>http://blog.jwegener.com/2009/08/03/million-dollar-iphone-app-market-sizing/comment-page-1/#comment-265</link>
		<dc:creator>Jonathan Wegener</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 20 Aug 2009 08:47:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.jwegener.com/?p=472#comment-265</guid>
		<description>Thanks for the comment, Aaron.  First of all, the 3% figure is meant  &lt;br&gt;as an upper bound, not as a reasonable sales figure estimate for an  &lt;br&gt;unnoteworthy app or an app in a crowded category.  It&#039;s intended for  &lt;br&gt;people serve a market with a unique app which solves an unsolved  &lt;br&gt;problem.  Predicting game sales or copy cat app sales (ifart et al) is  &lt;br&gt;a very different and more difficult task.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;A quick note about Exit Strategy NYC - it&#039;s not a subway map app.  It  &lt;br&gt;doesn&#039;t compete with the other subway map apps, but instead has  &lt;br&gt;functionality which compliments the other map apps and it&#039;s the only  &lt;br&gt;app with this information.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;As far as I can tell, reviews and numbers of downloads don&#039;t correlate  &lt;br&gt;very well.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks for the comment, Aaron.  First of all, the 3% figure is meant  <br />as an upper bound, not as a reasonable sales figure estimate for an  <br />unnoteworthy app or an app in a crowded category.  It&#39;s intended for  <br />people serve a market with a unique app which solves an unsolved  <br />problem.  Predicting game sales or copy cat app sales (ifart et al) is  <br />a very different and more difficult task.</p>
<p>A quick note about Exit Strategy NYC &#8211; it&#39;s not a subway map app.  It  <br />doesn&#39;t compete with the other subway map apps, but instead has  <br />functionality which compliments the other map apps and it&#39;s the only  <br />app with this information.</p>
<p>As far as I can tell, reviews and numbers of downloads don&#39;t correlate  <br />very well.</p>
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		<title>By: Jonathan Wegener</title>
		<link>http://blog.jwegener.com/2009/08/03/million-dollar-iphone-app-market-sizing/comment-page-1/#comment-263</link>
		<dc:creator>Jonathan Wegener</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 20 Aug 2009 05:35:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.jwegener.com/?p=472#comment-263</guid>
		<description>Thanks for the comment, Aaron.  First of all, the 3% figure is meant as an upper bound, not as a reasonable sales figure estimate for an unnoteworthy app or an app in a crowded category.  It&#039;s intended for people serve a market with a unique app which solves an unsolved problem.  Predicting game sales or copy cat app sales (ifart et al) is a very different and more difficult task.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;A quick note about Exit Strategy NYC - it&#039;s not a subway map app.  It doesn&#039;t compete with the other subway map apps, but instead has functionality which compliments the other map apps and it&#039;s the only app with this information.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;As far as I can tell, reviews and numbers of downloads don&#039;t correlate very well.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks for the comment, Aaron.  First of all, the 3% figure is meant as an upper bound, not as a reasonable sales figure estimate for an unnoteworthy app or an app in a crowded category.  It&#39;s intended for people serve a market with a unique app which solves an unsolved problem.  Predicting game sales or copy cat app sales (ifart et al) is a very different and more difficult task.</p>
<p>A quick note about Exit Strategy NYC &#8211; it&#39;s not a subway map app.  It doesn&#39;t compete with the other subway map apps, but instead has functionality which compliments the other map apps and it&#39;s the only app with this information.</p>
<p>As far as I can tell, reviews and numbers of downloads don&#39;t correlate very well.</p>
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		<title>By: Aaron Watkins</title>
		<link>http://blog.jwegener.com/2009/08/03/million-dollar-iphone-app-market-sizing/comment-page-1/#comment-257</link>
		<dc:creator>Aaron Watkins</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 18 Aug 2009 22:05:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.jwegener.com/?p=472#comment-257</guid>
		<description>There are three kinds of lies right? Lies... damn lies... and statistics. I think that the 3% estimate may be way too optimistic here. Flight control is a game, and as such, does not have the same kind of competition that your application would have. While you may have four airplane games, the likelihood of someone having more then one subway application is slim. While your app has better features, you still have to compete with things like Gotham Wave&#039;s free NYC Subway maps, which has over 6000 reviews. (Id love to see someone post about reviews vs number of downloads). &lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;I think there is also a major logic flaw in your addressable market... like you said, the MTA numbers do not represent uniques. You have to imagine at least half of the trips on a weekday are round trip - people who go to work, and then back home later in the day. You also cannot assume the Saterday people did not travel during the week as well. If there are 5.2MM rides on the week days, and half of them are round trips, then youve got about 3.9M riders. Ill give you 4MM for people who only ride the subway during the weekends and never during the week. &lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;10% of your 4MM would be 400,000. 3% of that would be 12,000. &lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;Going back to the first point - lets imagine anyone who already has a subway app and has rated it 3 stars or better is going to stick with the program they already have.  Looking at your competition, there are 7,057 ratings of 3* or above for other peoples NYC subway applications. &lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;Leaves your plateau point at about 5,000 downloads. Not saying you wont get more downloads then that, but at that point I would guess your daily sales would flatten out. &lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;At $2.99, with Apple taking 30%, looks like revenue totaling about $9,000. &lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;Of course... thats only iPhones. Good luck!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>There are three kinds of lies right? Lies&#8230; damn lies&#8230; and statistics. I think that the 3% estimate may be way too optimistic here. Flight control is a game, and as such, does not have the same kind of competition that your application would have. While you may have four airplane games, the likelihood of someone having more then one subway application is slim. While your app has better features, you still have to compete with things like Gotham Wave&#39;s free NYC Subway maps, which has over 6000 reviews. (Id love to see someone post about reviews vs number of downloads). </p>
<p>I think there is also a major logic flaw in your addressable market&#8230; like you said, the MTA numbers do not represent uniques. You have to imagine at least half of the trips on a weekday are round trip &#8211; people who go to work, and then back home later in the day. You also cannot assume the Saterday people did not travel during the week as well. If there are 5.2MM rides on the week days, and half of them are round trips, then youve got about 3.9M riders. Ill give you 4MM for people who only ride the subway during the weekends and never during the week. </p>
<p>10% of your 4MM would be 400,000. 3% of that would be 12,000. </p>
<p>Going back to the first point &#8211; lets imagine anyone who already has a subway app and has rated it 3 stars or better is going to stick with the program they already have.  Looking at your competition, there are 7,057 ratings of 3* or above for other peoples NYC subway applications. </p>
<p>Leaves your plateau point at about 5,000 downloads. Not saying you wont get more downloads then that, but at that point I would guess your daily sales would flatten out. </p>
<p>At $2.99, with Apple taking 30%, looks like revenue totaling about $9,000. </p>
<p>Of course&#8230; thats only iPhones. Good luck!</p>
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		<title>By: JTee</title>
		<link>http://blog.jwegener.com/2009/08/03/million-dollar-iphone-app-market-sizing/comment-page-1/#comment-251</link>
		<dc:creator>JTee</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 17 Aug 2009 06:17:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.jwegener.com/?p=472#comment-251</guid>
		<description>The Wall Street folks generally don&#039;t own thier Blackberries and do not have access to install apps...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The Wall Street folks generally don&#39;t own thier Blackberries and do not have access to install apps&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: spryka</title>
		<link>http://blog.jwegener.com/2009/08/03/million-dollar-iphone-app-market-sizing/comment-page-1/#comment-190</link>
		<dc:creator>spryka</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 04 Aug 2009 18:28:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.jwegener.com/?p=472#comment-190</guid>
		<description>I will recommend using Email Charger for all bulk email marketing needs. Its the best &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.EmailCharger.com/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;email marketing software&lt;/a&gt; I have used so far.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I will recommend using Email Charger for all bulk email marketing needs. Its the best <a href="http://www.EmailCharger.com/" rel="nofollow">email marketing software</a> I have used so far.</p>
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		<title>By: Jonathan Wegener</title>
		<link>http://blog.jwegener.com/2009/08/03/million-dollar-iphone-app-market-sizing/comment-page-1/#comment-189</link>
		<dc:creator>Jonathan Wegener</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 04 Aug 2009 15:07:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.jwegener.com/?p=472#comment-189</guid>
		<description>There&#039;s definitely a mental barrier to purchasing apps for a lot of people.  The same goes with paying to download music I think.  That said, I think there is serious money to be made, but for most developers it&#039;s exactly like playing the lottery.  The &#039;serious&#039; money comes from getting atop the best selling app list and for a game or utility, it&#039;s a complete toss up whether anyone will notice it or whether it will get lost in the noise.  Getting the marketing/press angle right is key.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;One of the best speeches I&#039;ve ever seen is David Heinemeier Hansson&#039;s &lt;a href=&quot;http://37signals.com/svn/posts/981-the-secret-to-making-money-online&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;&quot;The Secret to Making Money Online&quot;&lt;/a&gt;.  He talks about people shooting for the stars with a 0.01% chance of succeeding (trying to build the next facebook) and then more modest &#039;lifestyle&#039; business ventures that fill a small need and have a very good chance of being steadily profitable.  An app like Exit Strategy isn&#039;t &#039;the next facebook&#039; -- it&#039;s a lifestyle business.  We knew it would be pressworthy and get buzz and therefore would do sales approx in this range.  I wasn&#039;t expecting to make a million. &lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;Exit Strategy NYC was built by a very small and scrappy team working on a shoestring budget, putting in only a few thousand dollars and a few months of time to develop the app across four different mobile platforms.  It paid back its costs on our first two days of sales and has sold steadily since then -- it fills a need for new yorkers, and will likely continue to sell steadily.  It&#039;s been a great experience.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;Objective-C does indeed suck.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>There&#39;s definitely a mental barrier to purchasing apps for a lot of people.  The same goes with paying to download music I think.  That said, I think there is serious money to be made, but for most developers it&#39;s exactly like playing the lottery.  The &#39;serious&#39; money comes from getting atop the best selling app list and for a game or utility, it&#39;s a complete toss up whether anyone will notice it or whether it will get lost in the noise.  Getting the marketing/press angle right is key.</p>
<p>One of the best speeches I&#39;ve ever seen is David Heinemeier Hansson&#39;s <a href="http://37signals.com/svn/posts/981-the-secret-to-making-money-online" rel="nofollow">&#8220;The Secret to Making Money Online&#8221;</a>.  He talks about people shooting for the stars with a 0.01% chance of succeeding (trying to build the next facebook) and then more modest &#39;lifestyle&#39; business ventures that fill a small need and have a very good chance of being steadily profitable.  An app like Exit Strategy isn&#39;t &#39;the next facebook&#39; &#8212; it&#39;s a lifestyle business.  We knew it would be pressworthy and get buzz and therefore would do sales approx in this range.  I wasn&#39;t expecting to make a million. </p>
<p>Exit Strategy NYC was built by a very small and scrappy team working on a shoestring budget, putting in only a few thousand dollars and a few months of time to develop the app across four different mobile platforms.  It paid back its costs on our first two days of sales and has sold steadily since then &#8212; it fills a need for new yorkers, and will likely continue to sell steadily.  It&#39;s been a great experience.</p>
<p>Objective-C does indeed suck.</p>
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		<title>By: seek</title>
		<link>http://blog.jwegener.com/2009/08/03/million-dollar-iphone-app-market-sizing/comment-page-1/#comment-188</link>
		<dc:creator>seek</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 04 Aug 2009 14:53:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.jwegener.com/?p=472#comment-188</guid>
		<description>Hey Jonathan, I was really pulling a number out of thin air, but this TechCrunch article about the Tap Tap Revenge 2 launch which came out in March mentions total installs of 6 million. &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.techcrunch.com/2009/03/02/tap-tap-revenge-2-lands-tonight/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;http://www.techcrunch.com/2009/03/02/tap-tap-re...&lt;/a&gt;&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;I did a little further digging, and Tapulous CEO Bart Decrem stated 11 million installs in a phone call with TheAppleBlog in June. &lt;a href=&quot;http://theappleblog.com/2009/06/10/tap-tap-revenge-goes-gaga-for-universal-music/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;http://theappleblog.com/2009/06/10/tap-tap-reve...&lt;/a&gt;&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;My guess is that Decrem is referring to total installs for all seven available versions of Tap Tap Revenge. I&#039;m pretty sure Tap Tap Revenge 2 was a new install instead of an upgrade from Tap Tap Revenge, so all of its install numbers are probably just being added to the pile. My guess is that the total install numbers for the original Tap Tap Revenge game to date are around 7.5 to 8 million and the numbers on Tap Tap Revenge 2 are much less. 3 or 4 million would be a fair guess.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;None of this really matters much other than to say that obviously Admob&#039;s device estimation in April was way off, and I&#039;m fairly certain that comScores numbers were as well. I think if we had actual top 100 overall free install numbers, apps at the bottom of that list would be at 2 million installs or less. 2 million is still nothing to sneeze at, but it is far off from the numbers quoted. And as you mentioned in one of your comments, if you take the total number of apps in the store and compare it to installs, average installs per app are in the 20-30k range.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;Bottom line for free apps is that you either have to be willing to give it away, or you have to have a business plan that focuses on not just getting lots of installs, but keeping those people using the application regularly. That is the only way the ad or in-app purchase models really work.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hey Jonathan, I was really pulling a number out of thin air, but this TechCrunch article about the Tap Tap Revenge 2 launch which came out in March mentions total installs of 6 million. <a href="http://www.techcrunch.com/2009/03/02/tap-tap-revenge-2-lands-tonight/" rel="nofollow"></a><a href="http://www.techcrunch.com/2009/03/02/tap-tap-re.." rel="nofollow">http://www.techcrunch.com/2009/03/02/tap-tap-re..</a>.</p>
<p>I did a little further digging, and Tapulous CEO Bart Decrem stated 11 million installs in a phone call with TheAppleBlog in June. <a href="http://theappleblog.com/2009/06/10/tap-tap-revenge-goes-gaga-for-universal-music/" rel="nofollow"></a><a href="http://theappleblog.com/2009/06/10/tap-tap-reve.." rel="nofollow">http://theappleblog.com/2009/06/10/tap-tap-reve..</a>.</p>
<p>My guess is that Decrem is referring to total installs for all seven available versions of Tap Tap Revenge. I&#39;m pretty sure Tap Tap Revenge 2 was a new install instead of an upgrade from Tap Tap Revenge, so all of its install numbers are probably just being added to the pile. My guess is that the total install numbers for the original Tap Tap Revenge game to date are around 7.5 to 8 million and the numbers on Tap Tap Revenge 2 are much less. 3 or 4 million would be a fair guess.</p>
<p>None of this really matters much other than to say that obviously Admob&#39;s device estimation in April was way off, and I&#39;m fairly certain that comScores numbers were as well. I think if we had actual top 100 overall free install numbers, apps at the bottom of that list would be at 2 million installs or less. 2 million is still nothing to sneeze at, but it is far off from the numbers quoted. And as you mentioned in one of your comments, if you take the total number of apps in the store and compare it to installs, average installs per app are in the 20-30k range.</p>
<p>Bottom line for free apps is that you either have to be willing to give it away, or you have to have a business plan that focuses on not just getting lots of installs, but keeping those people using the application regularly. That is the only way the ad or in-app purchase models really work.</p>
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		<title>By: Jonathan Wegener</title>
		<link>http://blog.jwegener.com/2009/08/03/million-dollar-iphone-app-market-sizing/comment-page-1/#comment-187</link>
		<dc:creator>Jonathan Wegener</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 04 Aug 2009 14:48:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.jwegener.com/?p=472#comment-187</guid>
		<description>Looked over your presentation -- Interesting numbers, thanks!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Looked over your presentation &#8212; Interesting numbers, thanks!</p>
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